Update: I see that ATEK’s leader (I won’t disgrace the title “president” in reference to him) has commented about my post on the ATEK Open Discussion forum where Breanna Horn (National Council Hogwan Rep) started a thread titled, “A different Take 0n ATEK” which says,
“A post I found about ATEK’s online visibility at Kimchi Icecream and ease of access for teachers. Any thoughts on the post? Is there anything about this we can/should/have already addressed?”
The response from ATEK’s leader?
“Well, part of it is that we haven’t had a comms officer in a few months. Rob is in now so I expect great things. Also, this guy didn’t do any research before writing his story. We have access to almost 2,000 teachers on Facebook now – twice our membership. And, the bloggers write stories – however misinformed. I think the NEW newsletter, a new comms officer, and some really big success stories from us in the near future will turn the current PR picture around. I should mention that the perception of ATEK is leaps and bounds ahead of where it was a year ago at this time” (my bold and italics).
Thank you for completely missing the point of this blog post (see below).
I’m feeling a new blog post coming to me: 100 Reasons Why You Shouldn’t Join ATEK!
Does anyone else find it incredibly bizarre that ATEK’s leader himself points out what I write in my post? He says,
“I think the NEW newsletter, a new comms officer, and some really big success stories from us in the near future will turn the current PR picture around.”
I wonder if he realizes that he’s admitting there have been problems, that there has been a lack of communication “from us” to the native teachers, and that the “PR picture” has problems that need to be “turn[ed] . . . around” . . . which is what I was trying to convey through my post . . .
Seriously, very not impressed!
My original post begins here . . .
Okay, so ATEK is getting a bit of renewed Kbloggage lately and a few of my friends on facebook are also talking about them too.
But I would like to pose the following question: If ATEK falls in the forest, does it make a sound?
Where I’m coming from is that if I don’t visit the ATEK website regularly (which I don’t), and I’m not a member (which I’m not), then I pretty much don’t hear anything about ATEK and what they’re up to.
Some might suggest that if I want to hear updates (I’m indifferent . . . okay, slightly curious at times) that I should just join ATEK and then I’d be on their email list . . . but I don’t want to; I’d also point out that expat teachers like myself who are sitting on the fence in terms of ‘to join or not to join ATEK’ might be persuaded to join if regular communication and press releases were posted on a mainstream expat Internet web site or blog as opposed to only on ATEK’s website.
ATEK’s lack of press releases has resulted in me getting my information from Chris in South Korea and Roboseyo‘s blogs–which I find really bizarre because neither of them are press officers for ATEK yet they seem to be filling in this ginormous void that ATEK doesn’t seem too concerned about . . . or maybe doesn’t know about . . . or . . . meh, whatever.
It’s sad that ATEK doesn’t have an active blog (I think a former press officer used to, but it disappeared when he did) because I would add it to my side bar and definitely would have clicked on this story, ATEK adding new legal assurance program–but this story isn’t coming from ATEK, it’s coming from Chris in South Korea‘s blog. Chris, being the good guy he is, blogged about the information he received in an ATEK membership email about the development–so, it seems like if you’re not a member you can’t be privy to what ATEK is doing unless you join them, visit their website, or know someone on the inside . . . help me out if I’m missing any other options for getting info . . .
The legal assurance program is something substantial, something positive, something big (at least in my mind it is) that ATEK has produced that can and likely will make a big difference for foreign teachers who run into contract problems with their employers, and other legal situations they need help in. Yet there has been no Korean English news media press release, and foreign teachers in Korea will likely for the most part learn about the story via a blogger who to my knowledge has no official connections or role with ATEK other than as a member . . .
Instead of producing their own media press releases that reach as wide an audience of native teachers as possible ATEK seems to be relying on its website as their primary communication medium–which I personally think is a big mistake. How can ATEK expand its membership when it is failing to communicate and reach out to native teachers through mainstream channels?
UPDATE: Julianne and I were chatting about my ATEK post tonight during dinner, and she pointed out the following problem: It is now April 21st and neither Julianne nor myself remember seeing a major publicity and recruitment campaign put on by ATEK to inform newly arrived in Korea native teachers about membership and other relevant info. You’d think that if increasing membership numbers is the primary focus of ATEK right now that there would have been a major media campaign at the end of February and throughout March . . . was there one? I mean, other than on ATEK’s site itself?
Here are some questions I posed and did a little research on . . .
UPDATE: A buddy from facebook posted this comment,
“Hi Jason,
You can get updates with http://www.twitterfeed.com, which will send ATEK’s RSS feed to your Twitter or Facebook account.
You can read more about it here:http://thesocialmediaguide.com.au/2010/04/25/how-to-send-rss-feeds-to-twitter-and-facebook/
I hope that helps,
Dayle.”
Thanks Dayle.
Does ATEK have a Twitter feed? No.
I did a search on Twitter and came up with nothing. I did a search on Google and came up with nothing. (If there is one please post the link in the comments for this post and I’ll add an update too.)
Does ATEK have a facebook group for communication and sharing information? Yes/No.
A facebook search for “ATEK” produces 81 results (not all of which have to do with ATEK in Korea). There is a Seoul ATEK Group, and a Busan ATEK Group, a Gyeongnam ATEK Group, Gwangju ATEK, Jeollabuk ATEK, and more . . . . Gyeongbuk ATEK, Gyeonggi ATEK, Gangwon ATEK, Chungnam ATEK,
Chungbuk ATEK, Jeju ATEK, Daegu ATEK, and possibly many more . . .
UPDATE: Roboseyo sent me an email about this post, and apparently I missed finding the primary ATEK facebook group. The problem with this group, though, is that you must sign up to view whatever is there–and that might be the reason why people are reluctant to do so. It’s been suggested that people don’t want to sign up for this group because they think it means they’re also signing up to be a member of ATEK–which is not true, you’re just signing up to be a member of the fb group; I think it’s more likely that people want a chance to look at what is being said, and done, in the group before they sign up. I have to wonder if the reason it’s a CLOSED group that requires one to sign up is due to some of the anti-ATEK people online and how they can be extremely negative and toxic in their comments and postings on websites and blogs . . . if it was open access to the public then the group would have to deal with this kind of crap. If this is the case then it makes sense to me that you have to sign up . . .
I put ‘Yes/No’ as the answer to this question because while there are many facebook ATEK groups there doesn’t appear to be one centralized group which is moderated by someone in a leadership position at ATEK. This seems kind of odd as facebook is probably the most popular website native teachers in Korea use, and would be the easiest location in which to set up a group page where native teachers could join in order to stay up to date with ATEK’s progress but not have to join ATEK if they didn’t want to . . . hmmmm, now there’s something that might merit looking into.
Anyways, I hope ATEK figures out how to communicate more with the native teacher community.
The last thing I want to comment on is the nonsense taking place in the comment sections in these two posts: Rumblings about ATEK: Response to Chris and Rumblings around ATEK – and a new group forming UPDATED. I’ll just copy and paste what I wrote in the comment feed on Roboseyo’s post.
“It’d be nice for a change if all the wailing and gnashing of teeth over bruised egos would be put aside and some individuals would exercise some restraint about what they comment about . . .
If all the time and energy invested in ego defense and inflation were put into the issues native teachers have in Korea imagine how much more productive that would be . ..
There’s a reason why I haven’t blogged about ATEK–and that’s primarily cause I get tired of reading all the pissy little comments and flame wars that blow up over who said what, when, how, to who, and why, and then hashing all of it to death.
I’d rather listen to the sounds of lip smacking and slurping that I can hear in the teachers office right now as an ajusshi teacher eats his ramen then continue to hear some of the comments in this post.
BLAH!”
I hope some of the ideas and suggestions here might help ATEK create a communication vehicle with which it can share information with native teachers in Korea . . . cause right now my answer to this question . . .
If ATEK falls in the forest, does it make a sound?
. . . is . . .
Not really.
J
Kimchi Icecream 
18 comments
Comments feed for this article
April 21, 2010 at 10:35 am
aboss1970
Good points all around. Was Atek at the recruitment orientation for the new native speakers coming to Korea? Who knows. About the twitter and facebook …totally agree, and I would join the blog.
And yet why do it not exist?
I agree that Atek would not be heard if if fell in a forest.
April 21, 2010 at 10:39 am
kimchiicecream
I’m sure what you mean by “Was Atek at the recruitment orientation for the new native speakers coming to Korea”…..I don’t know if they’d be able to get an official invitation by the education office to be present whether it was with the SMOE orientation, or EPIK or GEPIK, etc. I think the education offices probably also don’t know much if anything about ATEK and would be very leery of giving them official sanctioning…
Twitter and FB–yeah.
J
April 22, 2010 at 2:14 am
Chris in South Korea
Yeah, the communications do seem to be a problem. I can’t imagine it’s lack of knowledge – teachers in Korea are college-educated, skewed towards the younger side of things, and typically computer-savvy.
One possibility is that opening your information up publicly raises your profile to your enemies – imagine how many hate mails the ACLU or PETA gets. While ATEK isn’t nearly as large, the vitriol is pretty close.
Another possibility is one’s sphere of influence – as a blogger with a few readers, it’s presumably easier to get a message to more people (and faster) through that means. My blog, of course, took over a year to really get going. ATEK’s press would need to have the same process of growth.
April 22, 2010 at 2:38 am
kimchiicecream
Chris,
I just finished saying to Rob in an email that I’m tired of hearing the ‘we’re new, we’re inexperienced, we’re growing and need time’ excuses . . . this isn’t directed at you in particular, but I think it’s relevant.
IF ATEK actually approached me and asked I would put up a link to news and updates on my blog. IF ATEK actually approached many Kbloggers out there with established readers and reputations I imagine they’d do the same.
It’s time for ATEK to stop being so reactive and start being proactive. There are VERY simple solutions to some of the challenges they have, and solutions that do not require a lot of people to volunteer their time and energy.
As I said to Rob in the email, but I’ll use it in a slightly different context here, “teachers are critical, cranky, cantankerous creatures . . .” and people leading a newly formed teachers association need to “figure out better communication strategies for asking them to be patient and understanding than simply the same old tired lines of we’re not paid, we’re new and inexperienced, and we’re having problems . . .” I’m not saying ATEK or Rob have said those particular things, but there is this general kind of atmosphere, I feel, that tries to silence critics when they say something….
I don’t think ATEK’s press would take anywhere near that long to establish considering the facebook groups population I saw, and that if ATEK actually got on the ball and asked member bloggers, and non-member bloggers, to help them out they’d have a decent presence inside of 2 months.
Anyways, that’s my two cents on all this.
April 22, 2010 at 11:50 am
Darren Bean
I’m sorry but saying that you don’t go to the site and won’t become a member (or join the FB groups) and then complaining that you don’t hear enough about what is going on is not terribly logical and akin to me writing that the Korea Herald doesn’t get the word out well enough because lately I haven’t been to their site and refuse to give them my email.
As for the legal assurance program ATEK members were given a high priority in that program because of ATEK’s close relationship with that firm. As the assurance program is still in its infancy extensive press could actually harm the small-group test run the firm is doing, by creating excess demand. In any case, we and the firm both wanted our members to have first access to the program. Furthermore we generally steer clear of endorsing anything (comics, recruiters, employers, services) regardless of whether we think the services are of good quality to maintain impartiality.
Finally please take this comment as an invitation to join and submit an application for press committee or other committees you could improve. We have one nominee for press secretary that I am very excited about but I’m sure he could use help.
April 22, 2010 at 1:49 pm
expacked
Great write up!
I really want ATEK to grow and become an organization that helps every teacher in Korea. I think they can do this, however at the moment, they are trying to run before they can walk.
The first, of course, is to proactively get their name out there on a regular basis so people can hear and connect with them.
The second is to give people more active benefits of being a member. They have a lot of ‘grand plans’ they are looking to have in the future, but I think they should be focusing more on actually providing members smaller benefits now (they can change the world later). Things like providing better advice, news, information and networking opportunities.
They have some of this now, but it is underdeveloped and I believe that these should be their core focus and membership services – and promoted as such.
I went to the conference a month ago in Seoul where ATEK presented. I was a little concerned when they said they where looking to have over 100 volunteers working for them around the country at any one time – and this is for an organization with currently 1,000 members (with many staying only one year in Korea). I just hope they don’t get bogged down in organizational structuring.
While I’m not a member, I do believe that ATEK revolve into an important organization for teachers.
April 25, 2010 at 10:18 am
Jason Ryan
Hi expacked,
Sorry I never really replied to your comment . . . I was just re-reading my post again, and the comments, and musing on what’s been said . . .
A few days ago I sent some suggestions via email via a member to ATEK…I’ll be curious to see what comes of it.
After the comments posted here by the vice president of ATEK, though, I’m still not anywhere close to signing up . . .
Have you read this?
http://www.koreasparkle.com/2010/04/atek-looking-back-looking-ahead/comment-page-1/#comment-16384
Thanks for reading.
J
April 22, 2010 at 3:17 pm
If ATEK Falls in the Forest, Does it Make a Sound? Musings on Why ATEK isn’t Communicating with the Expat Community . . . « Expacked
[…] Click Here for the Full Story (Source: Kimchi Icecream) […]
April 23, 2010 at 4:06 am
Darren Bean
If you can respond again in a professional tone, (e.g., not typing “STUPID” in all caps like we’re at Dave’s), I’ll consider responding.
April 23, 2010 at 4:11 am
kimchiicecream
Hi Darren,
Sorry for using “STUPID”–yesterday I was in a foul mood and I let it influence my word choice and I exercised some poor judgement in the response.
Sorry again,
J
Darren,
You’re comparing apples and watermelons. . . try to think a little critically.
ATEK is NOT a news website. The Korean Herald is.
ATEK needs to recruit and increase its readers and members for non-profit reasons. The Korean Herald has a for-profit agenda.
If the Korean Herald wants to try and get me to sign up for regular reading and membership it will target me as a demographic it is interested in recruiting–whereas ATEK seems to think I will actively seek it out without them trying to attract me to their site . .. .
ATEK NEEDS new members, and NEEDS volunteers with specialized skills and experience teaching and living in Korea; the Korean Herald does not need these things, it only needs readers willing to frequent its site in order to satisfy hits on its website for advertising profits…..comparing a for-profit site with a non-profit site doesn’t make any sense to me.
In regards to the legal assurance program I do NOT believe it is somehow ‘bad’ for ATEK if the Gangnam law firm gets ‘too many’ applicants and native teachers interested in the program….it would seem to be BETTER for this program if ‘too many’ showed interest: both for ATEK and for the law firm. Suggesting that ‘too many’ teachers showing interest in ATEK and the legal assurance program is a ‘bad thing’ also doesn’t make any sense to me. The higher the numbers the bigger ATEK’s membership drive grows, and the bigger a NEED for legal assistance the legal assurance program will see possible future growth for the program . . .
I will NOT join ATEK until they actually begin to proactively address these issues, and ASK expats in Korea to help them.
Why is it only ‘logical’ that I have to SEEK ATEK OUT when they don’t offer paid positions for their leadership and council?
Why is it only ‘logical’ that I sign up and offer my experience and talents for free?
DO YOU DO THIS? PLEASE, let me know about what organizations and institutions you offer your teaching talents and experience for FREE?
April 25, 2010 at 1:05 am
Darren Bean
Yes. I signed up for free. I’ve offered my talents for free (I am licensed to practice law, though currently inactive, in Oregon and California). I volunteer my time drafting and editing documents, chairing meetings, and talking to people.
ATEK can’t pay people because we aren’t an NGO … yet. There are people talking about how to make this happen–one thing is for sure it will take a lot of money and time that will have to be voluntarily given.
Did you volunteer in your home country? I gave pro bono legal advice, picked up trash on beaches, donated money and time to feed the poor, and more. And I’m looking for ways volunteer here, too, at orphanages, giving to charities, and helping to build ATEK. If I think something is right and needed and I have the time and money (which, over here, we all do, please don’t kid me), I give because I am a motivated person who would like to think I can improve the world around me. If you and I differ on that point, then we differ, and that is sad.
The current assurance program is capped at 50 people. For the forseeable future any 51st (-infinity) person who wants in will be told “no” because the firm wants to be sure it can adequately service those in the program (and that it garners adequate funds to warrant its continued dedication to the program).
There are flaws in the Herald-ATEK analogy. But my point is, if you want information, go get it. Dont’ complain that it doesn’t find you. I’d rather have less spam in my inbox and go dig than the other way around. I have yet to be convinced that spamming people will enamor them to us. (Incidentally, the Herald is not for-profit, it’s heavily subsidized, I believe.)
As for press releases, we have been without a press secretary for a while. During this time we made major overhauls internally (complete bylaw revision, reorganization of members, automation of several tasks) that aren’t exactly press-worthy. People with LLMs and MBAs have been giving countless hours to do this … because we think it might be worth it. If you want to see why we think that, join and hear some of our discussions.
If you think we will fall silently in the forest, then that is your opinion. You are entitled to it, but we will be trying to make the Assurance program just the first in a long list of things that prove you wrong. In any case, you are welcome along
Respectfully
Darren Bean
Vice President
April 25, 2010 at 2:10 am
kimchiicecream
Hi Darren,
I am a writer and my my university major was English. Most, but not all, of the time when I write something like the ATEK piece I’m very deliberate in my style, tone, and other elements–and with this piece I wanted to evoke discussion, and elicit some kind of response from ATEK . . . mission accomplished, I think.
I have had some correspondence with another ATEK member about my post, and in it I said the same thing I will say to you here. I think the reason some reactions to the piece are, in my opinion, overreactions is because there is a defensiveness due to all the toxic hyper-negativity of some Dave’s posters and other anti-ATEK individuals. Lumping me into that group, and projecting onto me what they’ve said is bizarre because when I re-read my post, and I did many times before publishing it, and after, I think that the FOCUS of the post is on the lack of communication between ATEK and the native teacher community.
I think there are some misunderstandings of my use of “If a tree falls in the forest . . .” that come from being battle weary with all the nonsense coming from the attacks on ATEK that should not be added onto my post.
My intent was to elicit some thought about what kind of message ATEK is getting out into the community; what kind of communications are taking place; what kind of sounds/ideas/messages are teachers getting about ATEK . . . and I think my post nailed it.
I have also done my own share of volunteer work back in Canada. In terms of doing this in Korea, I’ve done some work but not as much. A while ago I volunteered as a photographer at the Rubber Seoul World AIDS Day event . . . but in terms of volunteering with ATEK I’m not yet sold on ATEK’s mission and don’t know ANYTHING about its leadership which makes it difficult for me to trust and believe in their competence and abilities.
As I recently finished saying to another ATEK member the ONUS is NOT on me (by the way, the reason I use caps in my comments is due to the lack of bold/italics) to reach out to an organization that is still VERY new, and that needs specialized skills and experience that expat teachers have from living and teaching in Korea. This kind of attitude is one of the reasons why I’m still not sold on joining ATEK. It smacks of a kind of “Ask not what ATEK can do for you, but what you can do for ATEK” . . .
I’m sure you’ll be hearing about some of my suggestions and ideas for ATEK soon from the member I’ve been having correspondence with–I think you’ll see where I’m coming from more clearly then.
As for volunteering for ATEK–why should I when I’ve already been volunteering my time and energies on my blog with my orientation guide for new teachers, and all of the other writings I’ve produced on my own about teaching in Korea? This is where ATEK’s failures to communicate with members of the native teacher community glare in my mind . . .
Talking to me about being motivated and wanting to change and improve the world around me is VERY ironic–seriously, have you looked at my orientation guide, and other writings on teaching in Korea?
https://kimchiicecream.wordpress.com/2010/03/01/the-kimchi-icecream-guide-for-new-eflesl-foreign-english-teachersinstructors-in-south-korea-2010-edition-public-schools-hogwans-universities-and-training-centerinstitutes/
As for wanting more info–no, I’m not suggesting (and nowhere do I think I imply either) that ATEK should email every native teacher in Korea . . . that would be a PR-nuke-attack that would only end up damaging ATEK. I do recall suggesting in my post things like starting a Twitter feed, creating a more centralized facebook group where ALL ATEK members are signed up, and possibly a PR blog for ATEK where it could post updates and stories . . . I don’t know why you wrote about spam except for it supports the general attitude I keep hearing from the few ATEK members I’ve talked to who have this “You come to us, we don’t come to you” attitude.
That attitude might be warranted once ATEK actually gets big enough numbers, has survived and thrived and established itself as a long term entity for native teachers in Korea . . . but until then it seems (and I emphasize “SEEMS” here) to me that that kind of collective self-image that ATEK members are projecting reeks of an self-deluding overconfidence . . . or something, and that puzzles me.
You, and other ATEK people, have inside info on what is going on, and have a crystal clear idea of who the people are in ATEK and what their abilities are and what kind of character they have, you know what is being done and accomplished baby step by baby step–but the simple fact remains that most if not all of the native teacher community are not hearing about these things . . . point in fact, I had no clue that you are the vice-president in spite of having just spent 4 hours giving the ATEK website a close reading last week . . . until people repetitively and consistently over time see pictures linked with names and stories the ATEK leadership is an invisible and vague small group of people with no real human component to it–which makes it hard to see why signing up to become a member and then volunteering is important.
“People with LLMs and MBAs have been giving countless hours to do this … because we think it might be worth it. If you want to see why we think that, join and hear some of our discussions.”
That quote pretty much sums up why I won’t join until there’s some kind of paradigm shift in ATEK’s leadership about why TWO-WAY communication is critical to establish a clear and informed idea about who ATEK’s leadership is, and what they’re about, and what they’re doing . . .
A couple months ago I asked a professional licensed teaching and principal from Canada who is teaching in Korea why they hadn’t considered joining ATEK . . . and her response was pretty much in line with mine: ATEK hasn’t really shown who it is, what it wants, and what it can do.
Expecting native teachers to seek out ATEK, and to have to become a member in order to find out information . . .
It takes a special kind of lack of awareness about public relations and native teachers in Korea to think that your average native teacher is going to do what you’re suggesting . . .
And again this leads me back to using my question, but perhaps in another form.
If ATEK falls in the forest, can non-members hear the sound?
J
April 25, 2010 at 12:40 pm
Tony
I think any ATEK leadership who reply to a post like this in a defensive manner are making a mistake. Remember that everyone is watching. Defense is a closed posture. Adopt an open stance and accept feedback. This isn’t the time to be right. Thank Joe for taking the time to be critical, say that all the comments are being passed along to decision makers (if in fact this is true), and recognize that bloggers act as a barometer for the ESL community at large. The fact that he’s even being critical is good exposure, and ATEK’s languishing growth rate shows that it needs all the exposure it can get.
April 27, 2010 at 9:55 am
Dayle
Hi Jason,
You can get updates with http://www.twitterfeed.com, which will send ATEK’s RSS feed to your Twitter or Facebook account.
You can read more about it here: http://thesocialmediaguide.com.au/2010/04/25/how-to-send-rss-feeds-to-twitter-and-facebook/
I hope that helps,
Dayle.
April 28, 2010 at 4:23 am
kimchiicecream
Hi Dale,
Thanks for the info…I’ll plug it into the post.
J
April 28, 2010 at 1:36 am
ATEK gets a new national communication’s officer – also known as – Roboseyo « Kimchi Icecream
[…] my last post, If ATEK falls in the forest, does it make a sound? Musings on why ATEK isn’t communicating wit…, I wanted to elicit reactions from ATEK members, its leadership, and the general native teacher […]
April 28, 2010 at 7:04 am
Apparently the road to hell is apparently paved with my intentions to help ATEK out . . . « Kimchi Icecream
[…] post I found about ATEK’s online visibility at Kimchi Icecream and ease of access for teachers. Any thoughts on the post? Is there anything about this we […]
April 29, 2010 at 5:21 am
My response to President Dolezal of ATEK « Kimchi Icecream
[…] post I found about ATEK’s online visibility at Kimchi Icecream and ease of access for teachers. Any thoughts on the post? Is there anything about this we […]